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-   -   Doing a 180. (http://www.midnight-shadows.org/showthread.php?t=9832)

Imzadi 12-05-2011 02:47 PM

Doing a 180.
So ... it's not unheard of that characters sometimes do complete turn-arounds. Really evil suddenly gets turned around to a do-gooder and vice versa. With the WWD on the board we've seen quite our share of this kind of thing happen - but this question is not simply about the WWD, but more in general.

I wonder what you think about characters doing the 180. Have you had one of your characters do it before? If so, why? How did you pull it off? Do you think it worked?

And if you haven't done it before - then why? Is it something people should stay away from? Do you think it's something that will just never work (because maybe you think the character basically is someone else after the turnaround).

What's your thought? What have you noticed about successful or not-so-successful 180's?

Obsidian 12-06-2011 11:53 PM

Well, Brooke is a current example of this for me. I couldn't think of anyone else I wanted for a Warlord character and she reappeared in my mind as if she'd never been away.

To be fair, she'd never been the perfect model of good and there were events in her past, which worked very well as reasons that led to her becoming derailed. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it worked - there's a lot of things about the transition stage that are still intentionally vague as I'm continuing to work them out in order to pull this off.

There are some that shouldn't do this but then again most of these that I've seen work extraordinarily well. There's even the odd one or two where they could go back & forth without question and it would raise doubts (this being the minority). But I say, good on those that try it. There is always going to be the risk that it can ruin a character though, so it's something to be done with caution.

I'm not sure if it's right or whatever but successful examples, IMO, seem to be those that are never the stereotype good or evil - there's always something edgier in the character anyway, some attitude or behaviour that works whatever side their moral compass is pointing.

Vindicated 12-07-2011 11:57 AM

When I first started role playing here, I created Mari. She was the personification of good really. Not a shred of evil in her, not an evil thought, not capable of sarcasm. And then for some reason I decided she needed a make-over (maybe because I'd been playing her so long) and I had her killed. When she came back then she was entirely different to the point where she is now the personification of evil :)

I think it'd difficult to pull it off. Speaking for myself, I base my characters off of me, and I am not an evil person by nature. So making Mari sarcastic, and evil, and hurtful and sadistic is not easy for me but works wonderfully well when I'm very angry with somebody for instance. I do my best Mari posts when I, myself, am annoyed with the world at large.

I think a person can decide, in the course of their character's life, that they need a change, and the key is to just let the transition go slowly and allow their character to complete that transition. Not do it half and half. If one is to do a 180, than a 180 is required, not a 115 :-p
But I think it's something that I definitely encourage. You never know what your characters are going to do or be when they evolve so not having everything set in stone, and allowing these drastic changes can only make for more creativity I think :nod:

Thor 12-07-2011 09:11 PM

I'm thinking Lucas Kincaid here, my character I used for TS. He had such a hero complex, he just helped when needed. No questions asked. He was a bit of a push over and always came to people's rescue. He was simply said a nice guy. At some point I kinda wanted to get rid of that image because even though I loved him to pieces, he needed to stand up a little more but a little became huuuuuge. hahahaha.

At some point he snapped, something happened with his sister and he lost faith in the people around him. He didn't trust them anymore and instead of just arguing he decided to kidnap one and torture her almost to death. Fun times :D

He got killed in the process and I brought him back broken. Not completely good but not evil either but before I could play that out the game retired and I shall never know how he would've been played :-p

Tyrant 12-16-2011 08:40 AM

I think it really depends. People go through 180's all the time. The trick is that it should be organic. There should be a reason why a character evolves from A to B, otherwise you might as well create a new character altogether.

This doesn't necessarily have to be played out (but it's always better if it is) but it should be realistic and understandable.

Imzadi 12-16-2011 09:50 AM

I think the only 180 I ever did was with Thayer in TS. But that's because I think I just hadn't figured him out properly. The moment his sister died he completely spiralled downwards which at the time wasn't intentional. It simply happened given the circumstances. He eventually came back up, once he'd finally spanked his inner moppet and worked out his issues.

For the rest ... I usually have an initial idea about them which simply won't change. It's a set of certain beliefs and basic character traits that won't change as I play them. Everything I play out fits into that basic grid determining certain actions and outcomes :chin: So I wouldn't say I'm actually turning my characters around. Like Lucius and Gayle absolutely works with the way Lucius normally is (least in my head) which should come out in the way he sees her. It's not that he can't feel - quite the opposite. He has strong emotions concerning pretty much everything (which makes him so stubborn and oppinionated) It's just that he's usually only has negative feelings given that he's got a bit of a superior complex (A) :-p

Or Gabriel ... that the story that's happening now would eventually come was clear to me from the get go. I set him up exactly the way I set him up to be able to do the things I'm doing with him now. The part of himself coming through now has always been there, he's just never had reason / never wanted to show it until now :chin:

I usually find it harder and more challenging to not change a character. Like characters such as Saora (my TS gunner aka. the villain xD) or Lucius. Playing them over extended periods of time especially considering that they don't lend themselves to socialize at all - which sometimes makes it hard to have patience with them because not only is it hard to find interaction, but also that you cant just put them everywhere - makes it sometimes so tempting to just break character and get them out of their isolation. Which is why I'm rather proud that that never happened with either Say or Lulu :D

Immortal 12-21-2011 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Ares (Post 382192)
I think it really depends. People go through 180's all the time. The trick is that it should be organic. There should be a reason why a character evolves from A to B, otherwise you might as well create a new character altogether.

This doesn't necessarily have to be played out (but it's always better if it is) but it should be realistic and understandable.

This is pretty accurate. Most of my characters that have gone through drastic changes had the environmental factors to contribute to them doing so. Whether it be the loss of numerous loved ones or simply the realization that their own brother wanted them dead and would go to any lengths to achieve that goal.

Cyndrome 05-09-2012 02:01 AM

My character is turning at this point. I'm not sure how it happened, but I guess it came naturally. Helena has never been the "full blown" evil demon, though she had her crazier times. For the most part she has been a puppet to evil and is in fact a very sad and broken person inside. Now she is free and finally "think" for herself, she has - in hindsight not that surprising - some good in her that is waiting to come out. I'm playing with the idea of getting her to FGB in the future, but it's not a real choice I can make. I can nudge her in that direction, but somehow she's doing whatever she damn pleases. So I'm not sure if she really will do the full 180...

Ganymede 11-26-2012 03:43 AM

I don't think I've ever had a complete 180, which is pretty boring of me. :-p I think my first attempt was Serena in ADA; she was this sort of innocent being forced to accept becoming a demon. It was actually fun trying to play her change as she was navigating the gray area, and I think I'll eventually try to bring her back to see what happens. I think I'm stuck on how I should write her into the current WWD story.

Cassia is sort of doing a 90! She's not turned completely from her old attitudes, but in the case of the fast-forward in EC, that helped tremendously in figuring out what she needed to do, and she couldn't stay the same as much as I enjoyed her the way she was. I'm definitely excited about what changes are ahead for her and if she'll ever revert back to her old self. :shifty:

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